Regular vs Ultra - Buick Forum - Buick Enthusiasts Forums


Electra/Park Avenue Buick's full size premium car manufactured between 1959 and 1990

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 05-14-2007, 12:32 AM
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 25
Default



Hi


As I've got a "regular" Park Avenue, but want some more horsepower, I'm now thinking of upgrade it to an Ultra. You can find superchargers for around $200, a very low price.


Are there any extra parts needed to make it work proper? Like a hi-flow air filter or a special hose from the supercharger?


Has anybody fitted their PA with a supercharger?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-15-2007, 09:26 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 269
Default



I think you're on the right track. Just be sure that the supercharger is similar to what Buick puts on the Ultra. I have seen "superchargers" that were little more than electric fans.


I can tell you that there are quite a few changes on my Ultra as compared to a standard Park. Some of these, such as compression ratio, would be difficult to change. But, if you get components from someone who has done this before, he will have adjusted.


Incidentally, the supercharger assembly for my '97 Ultra was listed at $2362.86 from Buick. That price is about 3 years old, so it would probably be much more by now. I would question anything at less than 10% of that price.


PS: I recently had my fuel pump replaced. This is anotherpart that is different from the standard Park Avenue.


Edited by: MrBSS
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-15-2007, 10:42 AM
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 25
Default



Thank you for your answer.


The ones I've been looking onare remanufactured, and of the kind Buick had in the Park Avenue.


I don't know if the compression has to be changed when I'm running her on E85 (85% ethanol mixed with 15% petrol). Maybe (hopefully) I don't, 'cause that would be an expensive change, right?
Is it really important to change the compression ratio?


The fuel pump would be changed anyway, while I doubt that the pump can deliver about 30% more fuel than it is meant to. When running on E85 the mileage shrinks, but then E85 is so cheap, it is cheaper to run on that.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-19-2007, 08:35 AM
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 25
Default



I talked to a friend a couple of days ago,about fitting the PA with a supercharger.
He said that it should be enough if I bought two more cylinder head gaskets, and make a cupper plate the same size as the gaskets, and about 1.5 millimeters or 0.06 inches thick, to reduce the compression.


The supercharger needs a lower compression ratio, and the E85 needs higher compression than normal, soin the end it only needs a little bit lower compression ratio than now.


Now, if I buy this supercharger, is it easy to fit, and what belt pulleys are recommended?


If anyone here has tested both the regular PA and the Ultra, please tell me if there are any huge differences in acceleration and so on.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-21-2007, 09:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 269
Default



I can tell you that my Ultra is much faster than a standard PA, but I have never actually timed them. Besides the much improved torque output, the final drive ratio islower (numerically higher).


Mine has an additional drive belt. It's somewhat difficult to change as you have tosupport the motor under the oil pan, disconnect the passenger side motor mount, and snake the belt around it.


I think you must get a shop manual, because there are probably many small things like this that will not be obvious beforehand.


PS: Mine is a '97. Previous years are different ( I don't remember if you ever said your model year).


Edited by: MrBSS
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-22-2007, 04:55 AM
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 25
Default



Thanks for your answer.


In another thread, I wrote that the PA is a '91, so maybe there are some differences. I don't know if much on the inside (engine, interior etc) is different, but the outside is changed quite a lot (and is prettier on the later model).


How do I fit the drive belt? Is there room for another one, or do I have to fit one more belt pulley?


One more question...


Where does the supercharger take the air, from the original air filter, or do I have to buy something more "hi-flowing"?


I have a lot of questions, but I rather ask them here (and hopefully get them answered) than buying parts that doesn't fit or something likethat.


Do you think it's worth the money (maybe arount $300-350) to mount a supercharger on her? I'm a student, so if I'm buying all this stuff to get it working, I really want it working, good, or else I buy something else that is more worth the money.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-22-2007, 10:15 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 269
Default



I previously had a '92 Ultra, so I may be able to help; depending on what I remember. I did have a full shop manual for that vehicle, but the new owner has that and I have lost contact with him.


1991 was the first year for that body style, but the supercharged engine was not available until 1992.That caralso had a second drive belt, but it did not wrap around the motor mount as on my current Ultra.


I believe the size of the air filter is not critical; worst case is you'd have to change it more often.


I hesitate to "rain on your parade", but I do think that thiswill be harder than you think. Particularly so, if you cannotbenefit from the experience ofsomebody who has done it before, or at least is very experienced with your particular vehicle.


Do you have an alternative if the car is not running for a long time? Certainly if you were here in Chicago, I'd advise you to trade it in for one that better suits your needs. You might be far better off to put the effort into your studies.


Edited by: MrBSS
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-22-2007, 03:41 PM
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 25
Default



Fine, but I've heard that some '91 were fitted withsuperchargers, although the real production of the Ultra version started in '92.
Therefore, I think that a '92 supercharger would fit just fine in a '91, as there are no differences.


It's hard to find someone more experienced here in Sweden, as the Ultra did not get imported. I don't think it was sold in other countries in Europe either. But I've got some friends that know a lot about superchargers and so, and will help me fit it if help is needed.


Very few people know much about the Buick, as it isn't such a common brand. Here we got a lot of Volvo and Saab and that german crap, but there are few real cars (from US). My father is interested in american cars, and I think he can help a lot. It is also at his home my Buick is right now. I'm getting the drivers license in August, so I have some time to work on it. In about three weeks I' going home from the school (I'm studying about 500 kilometers away from home), and then I first going to make her nice on the outside, and then maybesoup upthe engine.


I don't want to sell it, as it was a gift from my father. It wouldn't feel right to sell it now, maybe in a couple of years, but then the supercharger would already have been mounted.


I am very thankful for your answers, and I like that you are honest, and I know, it might be difficult, but it would be so nice having (hopefully) the only "Ultra" in Sweden.


(Hope I didn't wrote too much)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-22-2007, 08:10 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 16
Default


< =>
<!--
var SymRealOnLoad;
var SymReal;

Sym()
{
window.open = SymWinOpen;
if(SymReal != null)
SymReal();
}

SymOnLoad()
{
if(SymRealOnLoad != null)
SymRealOnLoad();
window.open = SymRealWinOpen;
SymReal = window.;
window. = Sym;
}

SymRealOnLoad = window.onload;
window.onload = SymOnLoad;

//-->
</>



The max cost to convert to an Ultra is:


1. Sell your car


2. Buy an Ultra in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">US</st1lace></st1:country-region> (check Ebay for estimates)


3. Add shipping to your location


4. Add any taxes


Your should consider this the max cost to add asupercharger if you still attempt this mod. I shipped aFIAT Spiderback to <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">England</st1lace></st1:country-region> when I was assigned there in 1994 - it cost me about $1,600 US. So, I'd guess a nice 1992-1996 Ultra withabout 80K miles might run you $4,500 + $2,500 (shipping) + $500 (tax ??) - $750 (your car) = $6,750. The nice thing about this route is its done quickly and you know you have all the factory parts.


I'm sure you are thinkingyou could do it for less, but I'm betting you could not add a supercharger for less than this amount because you have too many factory components to swap out before you bolt on the supercharger. The cost of these, even at salvage lot prices, will add up quickly not to mention the time and effort to find, buy, and ship everythingto your location.


If you still proceed with modifying your engine Never forget you get nothing until you finish everything. If you part of the way through and $3,000 into the modification and you get stuck, you have to keep putting money into the job until you are done or you will have thrown away $3,000.


Another option might be to look in Continental Europe for an Ultra or a Buick Regal Gran Sport with a supercharged engine (see Ebay Item number: 290119933576 as an example of what this car looks like). The Regal is a smaller car, but would still be a big car by European standards.








Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-23-2007, 09:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 269
Default



What "Jerry" says is very true. But I understand why you would want to keep it.


For what it's worth, I bought my '92 new, and I waited for it because I could not get a supercharged '91. The Ultra modelwas available in '91, but it was not supercharged then.


I'm sure that you understand that there is a big difference between "fitting" and "working well". I still have the first car that I purchased new, a 1970 Firebird Formula 400 Ram Air III. When I have had to replace parts, I often find that they fit but are less strong or are less "high output". Things that you might not think of are often different. For example, the replacement water pump has a stamped impeller which doesn't circulate the water as well as the original cast one. And the new ones are MUCH more specific to the particular model; plus, you are an ocean and thousands ofkilometers away.


But, you are going in with your eyes open. I wish you good luck.


PS: I wish I had heard from you before I sold the old Ultra. It had 215,000 miles, but was still running fine. I sold it for $250. If you can find something similar, you would have all the components and could rebuild and swap as necessary.


Edited by: MrBSS
Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Regular vs Ultra andersson Electra/Park Avenue 0 05-14-2007 12:29 AM
pa ultra problems? tom.parker Electra/Park Avenue 8 10-11-2006 10:24 PM
94’ Park Ultra Running rough SOMETIMES bassasasin Electra/Park Avenue 9 10-10-2006 01:26 AM
Water pump replacement 94’ ultra bassasasin Electra/Park Avenue 1 10-10-2006 01:15 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:51 PM.


© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.